06.08.2024 - 23:00
—Everyone is waiting to see what will happen in parliament tomorrow. After the round of consultations, do you see clearly that Salvador Illa will be president of Catalonia tomorrow?
—We don’t know if it will be this Thursday. We know there is a solid majority of 68 deputies to elect him.
—I understand you say you don’t know if it will be tomorrow because President Carles Puigdemont has announced he will return for the inauguration. You said that if Puigdemont arrived at the parliament, you would not allow him to be arrested, that they would have to arrest you first. Do you stand by that?
—I reaffirm it. We have many legal arguments, but there’s also a political decision that is unyielding. As long as I am president of the parliament, I will do everything I can to prevent a deputy from being arrested while exercising their duties, because the parliament has an immunity that transcends the strictly normative framework. It’s a sacred place. In any advanced and democratic country, the seat of parliament is sacred, democratically sacred, and no deputy’s rights can be limited in terms of deprivation of liberty. This happened to me in the Spanish Congress of Deputies. I was a deputy for one day, along with Jordi Sánchez, Jordi Turull, and Oriol Junqueras. I recall a very impactful image: when the inaugural session ended, we were forced to stay in the chamber, and the police, probably armed, entered to remove us. That will never happen in the Parliament of Catalonia.
—How will you ensure this?
—We will guarantee it first with a series of solid legal arguments: from what the Statute of Catalonia says to the parliament’s own regulations, as well as two protocols we have already approved and are in force, which state that no deputy can be arrested within the parliament. Beyond that, there are more arguments. The process of a parliamentary activity, in this case as solemn and significant as the inauguration of a president, cannot be interfered with in any way. Therefore, from the moment the plenary session is formally convened, which I will sign, until it is concluded, no one can be arrested because it would disrupt the parliamentary activity. But the guarantees I want to present as president of the parliament go beyond that. There are various levels: from the most legally robust to the most politically determined. And here, it is not only about the law but also the political determination. There is a law that supports us, but also the political determination of the parliament’s presidency, and this is not a minor element.
—Has the Catalan Interior Minister contacted you?
—We have spoken. I have simply upheld what the law and the parliament’s protocols state. I have told him what I have already said publicly.
—And what did he respond?
—I can’t say, I don’t think it’s appropriate to disclose the conversation.
—Some media outlets claim that the Spanish police are already inspecting the parliament’s sewers. Are you aware of any unusual activity?
—No, personally, I haven’t noticed anything. It’s true that for significant events, there is some control. Not to prevent someone from entering through the sewers, but to ensure the parliament’s security. I understand that the police’s role, in this case, is to guarantee the parliament’s integrity and the security of the 135 deputies.
—What would happen if the police entered the parliament?
—If that were to happen, I would try to place President Puigdemont in the safest possible location within the parliament, which would be my office. I am very clear about this. The political determination, in this case, exists. I don’t believe we need to reach that situation, but for me, it is an absolutely sacred and non-negotiable element.
—Therefore, do you trust that Puigdemont will be in the parliament tomorrow?
—It should be normal for him to be there. In a normal democracy, it should be normal. But we have seen that at this moment there is a part of the Spanish state, the judiciary, specifically the top of the judiciary, that is out of control, it is rampaging.
—If Puigdemont ultimately cannot reach the parliament, should the plenary session be suspended? Your party would ask you to suspend it…
—If President Puigdemont is arrested, I cannot accept that the plenary session proceeds normally. Therefore, postponing the plenary session would be an ideal and appropriate approach.
—And would that depend on you or the Permanent Deputation?
—Initially, it would depend on me. There are precedents of plenary sessions that have been postponed due to absolutely exceptional circumstances. If President Puigdemont is arrested, which means a deputy is arrested while performing his duties, and with such a significant debate, we should postpone the plenary session. My role is to guarantee the rights of all deputies. In this case, it is the right of a deputy who would be deprived of his freedom, but also the right of the candidate for the presidency, Salvador Illa, to face a complete debate in which he can confront his political program with all the leaders elected by the people of Catalonia. Therefore, it is not only the right of Deputy Carles Puigdemont to participate in this debate in person but also the right of candidate Salvador Illa to confront his political program with all the leaders of all political parties.
—But the Board and the Spokespersons’ Committee would also need to agree, right?
—Initially, it depends on me. Then, of course, I would have to consolidate the decision, negotiate, and agree with the Board. This has already been implemented twice. The plenary session for President Puigdemont’s inauguration on January 30, 2018, and the inauguration that did not happen for candidate Jordi Sánchez were postponed. In those cases, there was a postponement, not a cancellation, because the plenary session had not yet begun.
—In those two cases, the postponement was indefinite. I understand this time it would not be exactly the same.
—We need to determine that with the Board and the parliamentary groups. And today [yesterday, for the reader], during this round of consultations, this option has already started to take shape. Therefore, we will have to discuss it extensively. But what would be unacceptable is doing nothing in such a serious situation as the arrest of a deputy. Especially under the specific conditions in which this arrest would occur, with an amnesty law already approved. Moreover, if we were talking about imprisonment, a precautionary measure of deprivation of liberty, we would be talking about an exceptional situation. We would be discussing preventive detention requested by Vox, not the prosecution, with a crime that almost never leads to deprivation of liberty and with an accused returning and entering the Spanish state. Therefore, the risk of flight does not exist. It’s worth noting that President Puigdemont has never fled justice. Neither have Minister Comín nor Minister Puig, as they left before any orders were issued, and when they were, they appeared before European justices. They have always been subject to justice, in this case, European justice, which is infinitely more protective than Spanish justice.
—So, how long should this suspension of the plenary session last? As long as Puigdemont is detained? And if he is imprisoned?
—I don’t want to speculate. We will have to see under what terms it happens. If it is an arrest and release, if it is an arrest with a precautionary measure of provisional imprisonment…
—And if Puigdemont were imprisoned, could he continue voting?
—Yes, we approved a modification of the regulations where there is the figure of delegated voting. Therefore, when it comes to voting, President Puigdemont will still vote. His vote will be recognized and counted. Could there be legal reprisals from some state body regarding the Board? I take that responsibility.
