27.03.2014 - 09:31
Santi Vila (1973) is the young Minister of Territory and Sustainability. A historian by trade, he has just finished a book titled, “Santi Vila: a personal profile”. Through conversations with the journalist Francesc Soler, he explains details from his private life (about his relationship with his father and the positive effects of living with a foreign born partner) but above all about his political point of view of the current situation. In this interview, Vila says he will vote Yes-Yes in the referendum and declares—unusually for a member of Convergència—that he isn’t a nationalist. In addition, he says he’s a big admirer of Adolfo Suárez (Spain’s first democratic president after Franco, who just died this past week).
In the book, you say you admire Adolfo Suárez.
Indeed. When I was a boy, my parents brought me to one of Adolfo Suárez’ political events in Figueres. And something happened there that I always like to keep in the back of my mind. When Suárez came into the theater, someone, who must have been Francoist, called out, “What have you done, you loser?” And Suárez turned to him, showing his political mettle and said, “Well, sir, for one thing, I made it possible for you to say that to me, without consequences.” That’s a big deal. And I always keep that first political rally in my mind.
Mmm. ERC couldn’t run in those first elections, for example. For being republicans. Depending on what you say, power silences you.
Well, the transition process has evolved. Keep in mind that the rally must have been in 1980 or 1981, and therefore, ERC could indeed have run. But it’s true. The transition process has had problems. Obviously, given the moment that we’re in right now, balance has always been fragile. And these decades of democracy have been compatible with the vestiges of authoritarianism of those who accepted the constitution against their will. The proof that Suárez achieved a good deal is that they organized a coup d’état against him. Which failed, thankfully. Some said that they had to raise arms to stop the process that he was carrying out. He didn’t satisfy either the democratic forces, nor the extremist ones. For me, that’s a good indicator.
You say in your book: “As a historian, neither Companys nor Macià have ever piqued my interest”
From an intellectual and political point of view, Companys is someone who doesn’t interest me very much. Because he made very few relevant contributions, beyond his very dignified death [at the hands of a Francoist firing squad]. With respect to Macià, he was very, very loved in Catalonia. But from an ideological perspective, he was straight out of the 19th century, with a romantic kind of nationalism. That profile doesn’t interest me much either. It’s another kind of politician that interests me, the ones who played key roles in the development of modern state structures. I like to recall that we are the descendants of Prat de la Riba, Cambó and Puig i Cadafalch.
In the book, you explain that you’re not a nationalist.
If we analyze it from a national perspective, nationalism in Catalonia has always had one very good aspect. People like President Pujol have related nationalism to personalism, in his case with a Christian foundation. Note that that is not what happens in other parts of the planet. The definition of “nationalist” is always pejorative, negative. In the eyes of the progressive, it has to do with racism, seeing the other as an enemy. Therefore, I note that the concept of nationalist makes me uncomfortable because in the rest of the planet, it has negative connotations. However, I say that one can be independentist and non-nationalist.
And so are you independentist?
I have come around to demanding our own state, which is now translated as independentism, dragging my feet. Because I would have preferred that this Spain thing would have been possible. And that the Spanish State had faded into a European Union of nations. As a country, we have to keep our cool, and above all we have to make it so that it’s possible for this process to move forward without ever being aggressive, or derisive, towards the Spanish. Because they will always be our allies. We have to guarantee that they never have the opportunity to complain about a single insult nor aggressive attitudes. The Ebre River, whether we are independent or not, will have to be jointly managed between us. The energy (gas, etc.) corridor as well. Always.
What would you vote in the referendum if it were held today?
I would vote Yes-Yes.
I was really impressed with the honesty with which you speak about your father. About the pain he caused by wanting to start ruinous businesses. And how you say it with love.
It’s a topic that makes me a bit uncomfortable. It’s so hard for people to have trust in their representatives that the only solution is for us to be honest. The journalist asked me for this personal story and I explained it to him. My grandfather was a man of order, and in contrast, my father was a man who had little confidence in the state and the administration.
In Parliament, you have said that you want toll-free highways from Barcelona to La Jonquera [French border].
Do you have a piece of paper? Look, I’ll draw it for you here: this system of highways is in the hands of one big company, Abertis. More or less from Tarragona up, it’s called Acesa. Below, Aumar (which includes Alacant, Valencia and Castelló). The secretary of state has said that in 2019 they will liberalize the Aumar segment, from Alacant to Tarragona. They use the word “liberalize” in the sense of freeing up the concession. The state will take it over. They’ll nationalize it. And they will be able to make the highways free. I’ve already told them: if you do that, know that you have to do the whole segment. Because if not, it’s discriminatory. And I warn you, and I’m being honest, I believe that the proper model is not that highways should be free. The model of an advanced, modern country is that whoever uses should pay. And whoever pollutes, should pay. And then these monies can serve to finance policies for public transportation. That’s what Germany does.
Here we all pay, whether we drive or not, thanks to the shadow tolls. It’s a problem that maybe you don’t have with the State, but rather with La Caixa, or Abertis. While the parties have debts with La Caixa…
The parties and the governments. The governments are just as anxious to undertake projects when they are lacking budgetary resources that they go knocking on the doors of businesses and banks. And you get into this spiral that makes it so that now, if you wanted to lift the concession of the northern segment of the AP-7, we would have a burden of 2.5 billion euros. Who would dare do such a thing?
In an independent Catalonia, would you implant a model of toll roads?
Yes, without a doubt. A concessionary model that guarantees that the resources we have, which are not unlimited, will be more plentiful and that we’ll be able to target for education, unemployment, etc. I say they should be toll roads.
Private?
Not necessarily private.
You say in your book that we are a country of Phoenicians. What do you mean by that?
In Spain, there is a more idealistic and romantic tradition, that is widespread. The good and the bad. The communists and the anarchists. The clergy and those against the church. Sadly, this tradition is common and well established. There is this other tradition, thankfully widespread in Catalonia, that is the Phoenician tradition. Believing in business, negotiation, and that maybe the other guy is partly right. Another thing is that now, our country is going through a time that is broadly based on an idealistic foundation. And people have gotten tired of pacts. The people, not the politicians.
Your father was a station master. And your grandfather was too. Did they get to see how you control the trains?
No. It’s a shame. Sometimes we talk about it at home. They would have been very proud that this kid from the simple family that we were is now the one responsible for the local trains running properly.
What do you think of the collapse of capitalism?
Every fifteen years, someone forecasts its imminent failure. And that’s been going on since the 16th century. Historic experience tells us that that is always the forecast but it doesn’t quite manage to arrive. If capitalism has one characteristic, it’s its own continual and persistent capacity for reform and adaptation.
And for self-destruction. I’m not sure I’d use the term regeneration, for example, to refer to the destruction of employment or the dozens of evictions that we’re seeing every day.
Capitalism right now has gotten out of hand, I agree. The old nation-states and politics have not been able to make capitalism serve the citizenry, but now it’s also true that in many parts of the planet there is a democratic state of law.
Right, like in China.
That’s not an example for me, no. There continue to be many countries with totalitarian systems on a capitalist foundation, not just socialist republics. But I’m saying that we have to guarantee that economic progress serves fundamental and social rights. And in this sense, I see the demands of the people as very, very necessary. Should we tame this wild capitalism? Absolutely. The principal victim of the growth in inequalities is democracy itself. That happened in the 30’s. The traditional parties were powerless, incapable of responding to the growing poverty of the middle classes. And when incomes fell, we know who rose to power…
And the reverse. There are those who say that when income rises, it brings democracy. Tying it in with Suárez, Carles Boix says in this article that it wasn’t Suárez who brought democracy. It came beause of a rise in income. Suárez, it’s true, adapted the Francoist structures to the new state. And that’s where we are.
That’s a North American thesis from a conservative point of view. The academic world in the United States in the 60’s said “we have to tolerate dictators because if we create the conditions for a better life, the dictators will fall on their own. So therefore, originally they said “let us work with the dictatorships of the world, because once the bourgeois are comfortable enough, they will want political rights. Foul! Because democracy must be won. If it weren’t for a few who put their lives on the line, some others would have implemented an authoritarian system. Although I do think that such a system wouldn’t have been feasible.
Not feasible, not because of Suárez but because of the increase in income, that’s Carles Boix theory. I see that you and Boix see it differently. To finish up, Minister, one question: you say in the book that each night you say a prayer before bed. Can you tell us which one it is?
I won’t tell you that. But it’s true. Since I was a boy I say a prayer to give thanks. Thank you for the day that’s ending. And good wishes for tomorrow.
